Moderator Remove Imported Posts from "Other Artists Drawn Ov

questions, corrections, complaints, suggestions

Postby Robb_K » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:30 am

Please remove those off-topic posts you imported into my thread asking for opinions about other artists using Barks' blueline sketches as the basis for final penciling and inking his Junior Woodchucks, Donald Duck, Uncle Scrooge and Gyro Gearloose stories. The trhead is NOT followable, due to those posts on a TOTALLY UNRELATED topic, having been spliced into the middle of the thread, ruining its continuity and "thread" of logic. The posts I refer to are those regarding Frank Jonker's use of a not-very scientific premise, and Daniel 73's discussion of his work with Mau Heymans on stories, as well as other discussions of Daniel Van Eijmeren and Rockerduck, and similar. I have no problem with EGG or Daniel 73 comments on Strobl's, Rosa's, Heymans', Wright's and Jippes' work over Barks' lines (and my own, as well). Those are on topic. But those post categories listed above are clearly not. I don't think posters who start threads on this forum, who want people to respond to them, and give their opinions, want potential question answerers to be "scared away" from posting by a thread that is clouded so much, one can't follow it. And I don't think they want the thread so "disguised" that someone who would have wanted to respond to the original question or an early post, will not even be able to notice that he'd want to respond, because the post he might have responded to is "buried" between much larger off-topic posts.

Moderator-you have created this problem by importing those posts. You have agreed to move the discussion YOU had in mind to ANOTHER thread. Please follow up by also moving those off-topic posts to that other thread.
Robb_K
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Postby Daniel73 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:45 pm

Robb_K wrote:Moderator-you have created this problem by importing those posts. You have agreed to move the discussion YOU had in mind to ANOTHER thread. Please follow up by also moving those off-topic posts to that other thread.

There has been chaos on McDuck International in first 6 months after its beginning. The way to clear up the chaos would be to delete the entire forum and have a restart on a blank forum.
And then still topics would get off-topic. For example, should topic "Barks quote quiz" be edited because there's more posted there than just quote quizes?

You are mixing up Egg (member) with the moderator (Daniel73). All guests and members can raise a new topic, thus so can member Egg.

The problems you've reported are from August 2006. That was months before my time as moderator. I became moderator on 15 October 2006.
A solution might be that you raise a new topic, as a restart. But then there's still always the chance that someone can give it another direction than you intended. McDuck International is an open forum.

As moderator (again, since 15 October) my solution would have been to rename the topic "Other artists drawing over Barks' blueline sketches" into "Barks's work methods" directly, by changing the title. The word "bluelines" is vague and limited, for the following reasons:
- Other pencil work is also discussed there.
- Having another topic about work methods suggests that bluelines fall outside those methods.

The maintainer/moderator takes reports seriously, but in the end he decides what happens with the topics.
Daniel73
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Postby Robb_K » Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:46 pm

Daniel73 wrote:As moderator (again, since 15 October) my solution would have been to rename the topic "Other artists drawing over Barks' blueline sketches" into "Barks's work methods" directly, by changing the title. The word "bluelines" is vague and limited, for the following reasons:
- Other pencil work is also discussed there.
- Having another topic about work methods suggests that bluelines fall outside those methods.

The maintainer/moderator takes reports seriously, but in the end he decides what happens with the topics.

The moderator could decide that millions of other wider topics exist that my topic "falls" into, and decide that my topic is not outside the wider topic, and thus rename the thread and make the topic so wide that NO ONE would want to attempt to post because no one could follow the thread going in so many directions. Would such widening be a good decision? NO!

It took me over half an hour to upload my drawings for that thread. Now I have to give the thread a new name, and do all the work to re-load them. In addition, we LOSE the good ON-TOPIC posts that have already been made.

Those Frank Jonker-related posts were spliced into my thread by someone - even if it wasn't the CURRENT moderator. If they were moved by the previous moderator, they still ruined the thread.
Robb_K
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Posts: 444
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Postby Daniel73 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:06 pm

Robb_K wrote:The moderator could decide that millions of other wider topics exist that my topic "falls" into, and decide that my topic is not outside the wider topic, and thus rename the thread and make the topic so wide that NO ONE would want to attempt to post because no one could follow the thread going in so many directions. Would such widening be a good decision? NO!

Millions is an extreme exaggeration. Still, it would be the decision of the moderator. The topic "bluelines" is narrow. You have been writing about other types of pencils yourself, like the Junior Woodchucks scripts. Should those comments also be removed?
The fact that people (including you) apparently don't understand what is meant with bluelines, isn't that a sign that the title is confusing?

Robb_K wrote:It took me over half an hour to upload my drawings for that thread. Now I have to give the thread a new name, and do all the work to re-load them.

There's no need to upload drawings again. These drawings have an URL which you only need to copy.

Example:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j56/Robb_K/Piper1.jpg

Robb_K wrote:In addition, we LOSE the good ON-TOPIC posts that have already been made.

It's either this or that. There is no edit-option to change topics afterwards anyway.

Robb_K wrote:Those Frank Jonker-related posts were spliced into my thread by someone - even if it wasn't the CURRENT moderator. If they were moved by the previous moderator, they still ruined the thread.

No one spliced anything. Those are normal postings by either guests or members.
Daniel73
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Location: Netherlands

Postby Sander » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:57 pm

It is technically not possible to move individual posts to another thread with our PunBB software. And even if it was possible, moving some posts in a discussion to another thread could cause too much confusion. If in your opinion some off-topic posts really destroy the thread, I would recommend starting a new thread titled `Other artists drawing over Barks' blueline sketches, part 2' or something similar. You could summarize the `part one' in the first post or just continue the discussion and tell people to read the old thread if they haven't yet.

It's very natural that a discussion about one subject touches other subjects too, and I think you cannot cut in a discussion afterwards as that causes confusion and makes the discussion unnatural. So the only way to prevent discussions from becoming too off-topic is by steering the discussion into the right direction -- and you don't have to be a moderator for that. That apparently hasn't been done in this thread, so I'd say the only options are continuing the thread or creating a fresh start with a `part 2'.
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Postby Daniel73 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:41 am

Still, I think it's strange that PunBB doesn't give the possibility to move/copy topics and replies.

I'll try my best to help preventing future discussions from going astray too much. McDuck International should be user friendly. I guess that everyone wants to write postings that can be followed by others. When people are being tempted to make an exception in being on-topic, others are tempted to make an exception as well, and then a topic is already off-topic. It's a matter of variation versus chaos.

For example, the Barks quote quiz has become an interesting trivia quiz as well. Is that a variation on a theme, or is it off-topic? Should there be a new trivia quiz topic, or would that result in too many quiz topics?
What to do when the topic is going on now, with me being the first to complain there? Even though, strictly speaking, I should dive in between.

The best solution from now on is that people remind themselves and each other of keeping on-topic within a topic. All I can do as moderator is helping out in judging topic titles and places where discussions should be. As a leader in fear would say: This is something we have to do with each other.
Daniel73
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