Is it true Don Rosa wishes to retire?

Santiago Ceballos, William Van Horn, Paul Murry, Don Rosa, etc.

Postby Daniel73 » Sun May 13, 2007 6:09 pm

Selection of messages taken from a discussion at DCF, copied here to McDrake because of too enthusiastic banning there:

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12-05-2007 18:31, DCF, Daniel73 wrote:

(Note: Somehow two chunks of this message got sent during its writing. Incomplete and chopped. Even though the texts were longer. That's somehow a problem I have with PunBB. What could be causing it? I've deleted those messages, which were dated "Today 16:56" and Today 18:27.)

Morequack wrote:I'm not familiar with the details but I believe Mr. Rosa has had ongoing serious disagreements with the Disney Co. and with U.S. publishers in the past. I don't know if there are any current dynamics at play that would dissuade him from working on new stories. I'm thinking outloud, trying to find out if anyone has heard anything.

Rosa also has had disagreements with European publishers. The Dutch publisher, Danish publisher Egmont, and reportedly the German publisher.
Publishers can be difficult people, as they want to make money and money and money and money... Etc. For their stock-holders.
(Wasn't there a strike in Italy , a few years ago? By Disney artists?)

If it's really true that Don Rosa has to sell parts of his comic book collection to pay for his retirement, then that's a shame. And I'm willing to believe it, concerning pay rates I have heard.
Maybe Rosa makes pin-ups because they cost him much less effort than writing stories, and still bring in money to pay some of his monthly bills? Just a guess.

BTW. How was Barks's retirement arranged? How much did Barks receive? Did Barks need to create paintings during his retirement, after 1966, to have a decent living?

Robb_K wrote:
Lars Jensen wrote:I don't know how much Don Rosa earns, but I'm certainly satisfied with my page rate.

And which "dirty hand of money and politics" are you talking about?

Yes, but Lars, Don takes a PAINFULLY long time to work out his stories - and even much longer to draw them! His "hourly rate" might be lower than ours, if you count all the time he puts in (including research).

Don't other creators research? Barks did research, for example. Still, Barks made many stories continuously for about 24 years.

Lars Jensen wrote:
Morequack wrote:I'm not familiar with the details but I believe Mr. Rosa has had ongoing serious disagreements with the Disney Co. and with U.S. publishers in the past. I don't know if there are any current dynamics at play that would dissuade him from working on new stories. I'm thinking outloud, trying to find out if anyone has heard anything.

As far as I know, everyone would like Don Rosa to produce hundreds and hundreds of story pages every year. The fact that it doesn't happen has nothing to do with anyone's hands, dirty or otherwise. :)

As far as I remember, someone of Egmont has told on DCML that Don Rosa gets more money than others. I think this was during the strike that Rosa had at Egmont, at the time when 'The Dream of a Lifetime' was his last story. (In the year 2002 or 2003?)

Lars Jensen wrote:
Robb_K wrote:Yes, but Lars, Don takes a PAINFULLY long time to work out his stories - and even much longer to draw them! His "hourly rate" might be lower than ours, if you count all the time he puts in (including research).

Well, lots of that time is spent on drawing posters, writing forewords and going to conventions, most or all of which he is being paid for. (For his sake, I hope he is.) And, honestly, I spend truckloads of time on research for many of my stories.

At least in The Netherlands the page rate is said to be awfully low:
script page: €75
penciled page: +/- €140?
inked page: €60?

If those figures are correct the total is: € 275 a page (without lettering)
Is this comparable with Egmont? I've heard the Dutch page rate is lower than Egmont's. Which sounds believable to me, as Egmont has a bigger audience.

Robb_K wrote:Yes, i research my long stories (or scientific stories) too. But, I think he has to spend a lot of extra time to make sure he doesn't put elements in his stories that conflict with anything Barks included in his stories. But his real slowness is in drawing all those little details and shading hash lines, as well as general drawing and inking.

Then why do a lot of elements in Rosa's conflict with elements Barks included in his stories? For example, in 'A Letter From Home' the crooks don't turn into gold when holding the Philosopher's Stone.
And in 'The Lost Charts of Columbus' Barks's "Codex Raptus" doesn't fit, as a law counts from the year (792 A.D.) it was established. So, having earlier dates, prior to the Codex Raptus, as in 'Lost Chart of Columbus', doesn't effect the meaning of the golden helmet.

I guess the slowness is caused by a lack of education, as with many Disney comics creators. Barks was educated by drawing lessons by mail, and later by working at the Disney Studio in the 1930s and early 1940s. Barks could work fast while still keeping up a high quality. Barks knew what he was doing, technically. That made him flexible and dynamic.

Robb_K wrote:But, if he gets paid an hourly rate for going to conventions, I don't feel sorry for him.

like you, I won't complain about the story writing rate.

Would you dare to do so? And would it help? I think Don Rosa should be paid for going to conventions. It would be a shame if he (or any other Disney creator) wasn't paid for that work(!).
My experience is that most Disney creators don't dare to complain, even if they wanted to. And if Don Rosa managed for himself to get more income than other creators, then it is deserved. Should he have waited for others to defend themselves?
I've heard Disney creators complaining that Rosa is too greedy, but if so, why wouldn't he be? It's his job! Jobs are to earn money. And isn't the publisher greedy?

Just count how many work gets into the wastebasket, rejected and unpaid. Work that costs you money, as creator. Have you calculated that with the pay rate?
It happened with Barks, and it still happens. At least in The Netherlands. With Frank Jonker, for example. And what does get approved can be changed by any editor.
Lars Jensen gives an example of doing research for Mexican flowers. But at least in The Netherlands he shouldn't be surprised if those flowers would be changed into any flowers anyhow. Isn't that killing for inspiration and enthusiasm?

Scroodude wrote:I think part of the problem is Rosa's own continuity he's created. The Beagles have already discovered a safe entrance into the bin and almost have all the combinations. Scrooge has already reconciled with his sister. Rosa has already stated that he never wants Scrooge and Goldie to meet again. Perhaps he feels there's not much more he can do.

A gossip on McDuck.nl was, in 2005 or 2006, that Rosa has a writer's block. And looking at his later stories, I think they have less thinking power in them than his earlier stories.

For example, 'A Letter From Home' mismatches 'Life of $crooge'. In Lo$ 9, 'The Billionaire of Dismal Downs', Scrooge left with his sisters. In 'A Letter From Home' his sisters stayed with his father. According to Lo$ 9, Scrooge is told by his father that his father is proud. ("No arguin, lad! Joost PROMISE ME you'll always be true to yourself and know ah'll always be prood o' ya!")
But in 'A Letter From Home', years later, Scrooge desperately wants to know if his father is proud, despite the information in Lo$ 9. And so, Scrooge asks his sister (Matilda?) about his father. But as shown in Lo$ 9, his sister left with him just before the father died.
How can this be explained away?

arthur wrote:Today Dan Shane wrote on the DCML:

Dan Shane (on DCML) wrote:Some members have asked what Don Rosa’s next story might be, and it has been suggested that he is in retirement.

As many here know, I see Don quite frequently. I can promise he is just as active as ever, designing covers & pin-ups and providing texts and bonus material for various Egmont ROSA HALL OF FAME books and Gemstone special issues. But he is just not currently working on a story.


For a comic book artist, who's supposed to write and draw comic book stories, this looks much like retirement. Doesn't it?
Barks also did such work in his retirement, drawing illustrations and supplying bonus material.

Morequack wrote:Hmmm, pin-ups... (I have a pin-up of Uncle Sam wanting me...) Ask him why he's no longer making STORIES, that which his fans really care for. :/

Exactly. That's what I read more, complaints about Rosa doing pin-ups stuff rather than writing stories. I wonder if Rosa has become a sort of marionette for the benefit of publishers, promoting reprint issues with old material.
And is Rosa somehow obliged to refer to Barks? I guess there must be quite a pressure on him, with editors and fans asking him for Barks sequels.

Scroodude wrote:I think part of the problem is Rosa's own continuity he's created. The Beagles have already discovered a safe entrance into the bin and almost have all the combinations. Scrooge has already reconciled with his sister. Rosa has already stated that he never wants Scrooge and Goldie to meet again. Perhaps he feels there's not much more he can do. On the other hand, it opens doors to future stories. I wouldn't mind seeing Matilda in future duck stories and the reactions of the rest of the Duck family. Scrooge and Matilda is a relationship that I would definitely like to see Rosa explore. As for future treasure hunts I vaguely remember reading a long time ago about a "Golden Palace" somewhere in South America - of all places in a Disney kids encyclopedia that "starred" Scrooge himself - and thinking it would make a fine Rosa adventure. Oddly enough, Scrooge says he's too old for treasure hunts at that point. I guess he just said that so the book wouldn't go too far off-topic. I wish I still had that book now so I could give out more details, but I imagine it wouldn't be too hard for Rosa to Google. Or perhaps a "sequel/prequel" to "The Golden Fleecing" with Scrooge hunting for the original animal the fleece grew off of (came in contact with "The Philosopher's Stone?" Went in "The Golden River?" Originally from "The Twenty-Four Karat Moon?")

Why sequels. I think Rosa could be good at original stories, like 'Island at the Edge of Time' and 'A Matter of Gravvity'. And not to forget some ten-pagers. Where have those times gone?

Morequack wrote:If Mr. Rosa loves doing Duck stories and was 'born to do them' to paraphrase what Rosa has said, well, he would be doing them. But it sounds to me like he may be burnt out on telling stories and drawing them. After all, it is hard work—particularly the way he does them. And he has long-established himself now so he has nothing left to prove. 'The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long.' But that's just my two cents. I wish Mr. Rosa would come on here and chew me out and prove me wrong.

"The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long." How does this saying fit with Barks then? Barks shone like the sun, for about 60 years.

But then, Barks didn't have internet. In an interview, reprinted in a Stripschrift in The Netherlands, Barks has said that a window would have cost him hundreds of hours, getting too distracted by looking outside.

Barks said in part, describing how his ideal work room would be: "En dan zou er nog ergens ver achter mijn rug een klein raampje in de muur mogen zitten. Want ik heb wel begrepen dat een raam met een fraai uitzicht erg afleidend werkt. In dit huis hier zou mijn tekentafel aan dat raam moeten staan dat uitzicht biedt op een schitterende berg. Die berg zou me honderden uren werk hebben gekost."
(source: 'Duckman' Barks over Carl Barks'. Edited by Daan Jippes. Stripschrift ..., page 18-21.)

Internet takes away a lot of time. My run-of-the-mill theory is that in Don Rosa's work can be seen when he got an internet account. :) But that could be just coincidence.
However, I think the quality of 'Life of Scrooge' falls down within the 12 chapters, getting from (for Rosa's standards) rather polished art to chaotic, muddy art. What happened, within such a short time?

Unfortunately, Rosa isn't the only one having a fall-down in quality in later work. Just look at Freddy Milton's art, Mau Heymans's art, and Vicar's art. As if they all get weary of drawing. And who wouldn't?
Some even say that Barks turned into a bad artist in later stories. Especially after Western decided to save costs on paper quality and paper size. That's what you get as reward for being a popular artist. In The Netherlands we've had balloons being forbidden, because it would be cheaper to let them be added by a computer. Cheap, cheaper, cheapst. It's offensive.

May I suggest that Disney creators who say they're satisfied with the system, are not fully telling what they know for themselves? Even Carl Barks complained. Saying that a plumber is better off, or something like that.

Just a bunch of thoughts and loose ends, as a reply to messages in this topic.


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12-05-2007 18:42, DCF, Olivier wrote:

"The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long." How does this saying fit with Barks then? Barks shone like the sun, for about 60 years.

Barks himself admitted he was running out of ideas in the last decade and had to recycle earlier plots; there are some good stories in the '60's, but his peak was definitely the late '40's - early '50's (roughly, of course), both narratively and artistically.


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13-05-2007 18:52, DCF, Bence wrote:

Daniel73 wrote:For example, 'A Letter From Home' mismatches 'Life of $crooge'. In Lo$ 9, 'The Billionaire of Dismal Downs', Scrooge left with his sisters. In 'A Letter From Home' his sisters stayed with his father.

Yes, but not after Lo$ 9! His sisters stayed with his father until 1902.


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http://dcf.outducks.org/viewtopic.php?pid=606#p606
http://dcf.outducks.org/viewtopic.php?pid=607#p607
http://dcf.outducks.org/viewtopic.php?pid=613#p613
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Postby Egg » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:12 pm

News from Don Rosa...

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Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 18:47:14 -0500
From: "Don Rosa"
Subject: RE: DCML Digest, Vol 57, Issue 3
To: [dcml]

From: "Robert J. Davidek" [...]
Subject: Don Rosa MIA from Mid Ohio Comicon?
>>>>The website for Mid Ohio Comicon doesn't list Don as a guest this year.
Does anyone know if this is an oversight, or whether Don will truly be
absent this year?

Don WILL be absent from MidOhioCon this year... for the first time in 20
years.
Don (I) was invited on a tour of Finland sponsored by a millionaire
department store / hotel owner. In countries like Finland, putting your name
on a Duck writer/artist's back is like sponsoring a golf pro or (shudder!) a
NASCAR driver in America. It improves the sponsor's image. NOTHING in
America is as popular and universally beloved as Carl Barks' Aku Ankka
(Donald Duck) is in Finland.
Anyway, I will travel all around Finland for over 2 weeks signing copies of
the 2-volume hardback slipcased "Life of $crooge" book set that the Finnish
publisher has released -- it's a page-for-page copy of the two great
Gemstone editions, a WISE move by the Finnish publisher. Neither Gemstone
nor *I* get a penny out of this, as usual. Only Disney and the publisher
profit from all our work. I've done many signing tours for the publishers.
This time, I am being offered a 50/50 deal on the profits from the sale of
my books as I sign them for fans. The fans pay nothing extra. I just get
half the profits from sales. This is somewhat better than the 100/0 deal I
have always gotten from the publishers. And the seller made me the offer --
I would never have asked for such a large cut!
So... this is a new concept for me, to profit from my own popularity! A
first. I was invited for a month-long tour, but despite how much $ that
might mean, I just can't leave my wife and my dogs and my grass and all else
alone for so long. It would be too cruel and irresponsible. So I'm giving it
2.5 weeks. Nov. 20 to Dec. 10 But that required the cancellation of my
annual trip to Roger Price's MidOhioCon, with great apologies to him! He
always treats me as if he was... Finnish! But I'll make triply sure that I'm
there in 2008!
Sorry!
But maybe you can visit me in my tourbus in Helsinki? Or Tampere? Tuuri?
Oulu? Turku? Etc., etc.? No?

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bron: DCML
http://nafsk.se/pipermail/dcml


Some comments by Egg...

In recent years, Rosa only seems interesting in visiting conventions to promote mainly his own back catalogue.
Sponsorship, signing, profits. How interesting for the real Disney comics fans...

Don Rosa wrote:Don (I) was invited on a tour of Finland sponsored by a millionaire department store / hotel owner. In countries like Finland, putting your name on a Duck writer/artist's back is like sponsoring a golf pro or (shudder!) a NASCAR driver in America. It improves the sponsor's image. NOTHING in America is as popular and universally beloved as Carl Barks' Aku Ankka (Donald Duck) is in Finland.

Don Rosa sponsored by a millionaire? A department store / hotel owner?

Don Rosa wrote:Anyway, I will travel all around Finland for over 2 weeks signing copies of the 2-volume hardback slipcased "Life of $crooge" book set that the Finnish publisher has released -- it's a page-for-page copy of the two great Gemstone editions, a WISE move by the Finnish publisher.

Self-promotor Don Rosa advertises his own work at DCML. Copying a collection of Rosa's work is, according to Rosa himself, "a WISE move by the Finnish publisher".

Don Rosa wrote:Neither Gemstone nor *I* get a penny out of this, as usual. Only Disney and the publisher profit from all our work. I've done many signing tours for the publishers. This time, I am being offered a 50/50 deal on the profits from the sale of my books as I sign them for fans. The fans pay nothing extra. I just get half the profits from sales.

Don Rosa contradicts himself: "Neither Gemstone nor *I* get a penny out of this [...] I am being offered a 50/50 deal on the profits from the sale of my books as I sign them for fans."

Don Rosa gets profits but still not a penny? Should Egg take "a penny" literal? That Don Rosa doesn't get just a penny but a lot of dollars?

Don Rosa wrote:This is somewhat better than the 100/0 deal I have always gotten from the publishers. And the seller made me the offer -- I would never have asked for such a large cut!

"And the seller made me the offer". For Egg this reads like a lame "The devil me do it".

Earlier at DCML, Don Rosa blamed even his own sister in an attempt to make himself look good. (His sister didn't buy a particular Disney comic and so poor brother Rosa has a gap in his knowlegde of Barks... Something silly like that.)

Don Rosa wrote:So... this is a new concept for me, to profit from my own popularity!

Don Rosa profits from his "own popularity". At least Rosa admits going for the money.
But that "own popularity"... Has Rosa forgotten that most of his popularity is in fact based on ripping off his "uncle" Carl Barks?

Egg guesses that in the past, Rosa would have been the first to jump up against commercial money-making with sponsoring and such. At DCML he wrote long preaches about how other people should live and how they should love comics.
Has Ro$a lost his principles? Or didn't Ro$a have any principles at all?

Egg guesses that an "artist" like Don Rosa is a personification of the retirement and death of Disney comics.
Carl Barks made Disney comics an art. Don Rosa turns it back to merchandise pulp again.
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Postby Daniel73 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:20 pm

On DCML I've tried to mention the rumour about Don Rosa having a writer's block. I thought it would be fair to mention that on a place where Rosa himself can read and reply it.
However, in 2005 some helpers of Rosa have succeeded in making so much noise about criticism towards Rosa, that today DCML-moderator Olof Siverbo bounces even the slightest smell-of-criticism towards Rosa. Including the subject of Rosa having a writer's block. And so, my contribution of today got bounced.

Olof refers to "wounds" that were false accusations of Rosa's helpers towards me, a critical reader, who had some complaints about Rosa's private mail behaviour. So, if anyone should have "wounds" it would be me. Especially when those those false accusations are misused to simply censor my defence and my critical contributions.
In 2005, on DCML, Rosa-helper Kai Saarto wrote about a "an innocent trap" set up by Rosa himself. As if that would be a really innocent thing to do by a Disney artist. Would such a "trap" really exist? Does Rosa put his time in designing a "trap", rather than writing a new story? I can't believe that.

Rather than getting over it and explore new topics, like for example Rosa's yes/no "retirement", moderators DCML rather remind people about what they call "the flame war", giving Rosa's "innocent trap" of 2005 more and more attention. Here I've just mentioned it again. Rather than forget about it, I feel yet again urged to prove what Rosa did in recent years, shortly before his yes/no retirement. I'd rather step over it, but DCML keeps reminding and reminding.

Nowodays, DCML allows Don Rosa and his helpers to promote Rosa and his work. His helpers have succeeded in giving Rosa a very, very unfair position on DCML. Praisings towards are allowed. Criticism gets bounced.
In fact, even Rosa's colleague, Disney author MAU HEYMANS (under alias "Ingmar Bomer") got bounced from DCML when he finally decided to explain and discuss a misunderstanding raised all by himself.

Anyway, today another potential discussion has been slammed down on DCML. I wonder if Don Rosa himself would feel happy about being overprotected, and if he thinks he needs to be treated like a "wounded" sissy primadonna. If anyone has ever raised controversial discussions and subjects, for example calling Barks an "evil genius" in 1993, it's Don Rosa himself. And now people are critical to Rosa himself, they get bounced because of "wounds".
By overprotecting Rosa, by censoring criticism towards him, moderators of DCML keep on reminding people of Rosa's bad sides of (I hope) the past. Remember "the flame war"? And there we go again, back and forth. Remember Rosa's "evil genius"? Etc. etc. etc.

Below is my message to DCML, about Rosa's rumoured writer's block, and the reply I got from "co-moderator" Olof Siverbo (who writes in a "we"-form).
Judge for yourself.

----- Original Message -----
From: "D.M. van Eijmeren"
To: [dcml]
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:56:16 +0100
Subject: Re: Rosa Retired?


UNDBKB, 26-11-2007:

>> According to Don he has NOT retired.
> He attends shows and he was just in Finland for a big signing.
> He is doing lots of art, he just has not done a story lately.

What's the difference with, for example, Barks during his retirement? About
him, and other retired artists, could also have been said at the time that
he's "doing lots of art, he just has not done a story lately".

I've understood that Don Rosa has a writer's block. And I'm willing to
believe that, because (IMO) the quality of Rosa's latest stories were very
inferior to his earlier stories. For example, 'A Letter From Home' even
mismatches the 'Life of Scrooge'-sequences its refering to. It gave me the
impression that Rosa is weary of writing.

Another point may be that Rosa now has become some sort of editorial
employee who's making drawings his editors need to promote reprints,
collections, etc. I'm a bit surprised of seeing Rosa in such a role.
Especially because he himself has stated, if I remember correctly, that his
writing and not his art is what really matters.

-- Daniël

----- Original Message -----
From: [dcml-bounces]
To: [dve]
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:44:22 +0100
Subject: Request to mailing list DCML rejected


Your request to the DCML mailing list

Posting of your message titled "Re: Rosa Retired?"

has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the
following reason for rejecting your request:

"Hi Daniël, We (the moderators) have discussed your post and have
decided to stop it. We feel that the wounds from the flame war a
couple of years ago have not yet healed, and we believe that your post
would possibly rekindle the flame war. We definitely don't want that.
I hope that you see our point. /Olof Siverbo, co-moderator"

Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
at:

dcml-owner@nafsk[...]

Reading the explanation of Rosa's friend UNDBKB, I guess that something weird is going on at Rosa. To me, the comment "he just has not done a story lately" seems to smooth over something more, because making no stories is not a normal situation that justifies the word "just". But that's just guessing from me. I hoped to get clarity at DCML, but unfortunately that's impossible.
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