Don Rosa-bashing

Santiago Ceballos, William Van Horn, Paul Murry, Don Rosa, etc.

Postby Robb_K » Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:45 am

Egg wrote:
Doctor Witchie Britchie wrote:Rosa attempts to explain and pigeonhole Scrooge's personality in exact detail. To paraphrase a line from Shakespeare, Rosa would "pluck out the heart of the Ducks' mystery."

100% agreed.

I agree, too. What's more, Rosa's telling Scrooge's WHOLE history, with a time line, makes it difficult for other creators to continue to refer to Scrooge's past with flashbacks and recounting, to pertain to a new adventure. I personally wrote and drew a few stories I submitted to Egmont in the early '90s, that had flashbacks into Scrooge's history (based on Barks' stories references), which because they conflicted with events in Rosa's then-proposed "History of Scrooge" (or whatever it is called) -were rejected (FOREVER). I don't think it is fair, or much fun for the Uncle Scrooge fan, for Rosa's ambition to "lock down" the history of McDuck, so that he can't have an endless flow of new, interesting and magical adventure stories. There should be some "magic" asnd mystery about these fictional characters.
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Postby Robb_K » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:40 am

Rockerduck wrote:Too bad a great forum already has to be spoiled by new fighting over Don Rosa.

Now we "Worldwide" new members know what to (or not to) look for on The Dutch section of McDuck.nl Forum!
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Postby Egg » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:21 pm

Robb_K wrote:What's more, Rosa's telling Scrooge's WHOLE history, with a time line, makes it difficult for other creators to continue to refer to Scrooge's past with flashbacks and recounting, to pertain to a new adventure.

No Robb, only PART of Scrooge's history. Rosa picks out whatever HE likes. Isn't that trick called "best of the best"? Barks's work is like a dead body to Rosa, of which he can pick whatever he likes.

Robb_K wrote:I personally wrote and drew a few stories I submitted to Egmont in the early '90s, that had flashbacks into Scrooge's history (based on Barks' stories references), which because they conflicted with events in Rosa's then-proposed "History of Scrooge" (or whatever it is called) -were rejected (FOREVER).

So, who is bashing who? Rosa and his friendly editor are bashing other artists. Does this mean that Rosa managed to get miss Penny Wise out of Duckburgian history? Can't creators write stories about her history, for Egmont?
In The Netherlands, creators are free to use BARKS's Duck-history. A great difference. We have some very good stories about Scrooge's life. And what about Italy?
If Egmont wants to lock down the creativity of Barks, their glorious days are over. People will run away.

Robb_K wrote:I don't think it is fair, or much fun for the Uncle Scrooge fan, for Rosa's ambition to "lock down" the history of McDuck, so that he can't have an endless flow of new, interesting and magical adventure stories. There should be some "magic" asnd mystery about these fictional characters.

Exactly. What´s worser, the history of McDuck is open for Rosa himself. So Rosa can have fun, while others have to look out for him. No wonder Rosa has a big mouth about Duckburg. His editors make him do it.
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Postby Egg » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:25 pm

Robb_K wrote:Now we "Worldwide" new members know what to (or not to) look for on The Dutch section of McDuck.nl Forum!

Do you? At the moment, there's a "fighting" on Daan Jippes. Is Jippes as good as people say he is? Will Jippes survive the horrible Jippes-bashing?
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Postby Stephan » Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:49 pm

I don't take A.P.Kool ('bullshit') and his Jippes-Bashing very seriously. I think that the story that appeared in the mini-extra some days ago was really great and very well drawn.
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Postby Egg » Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:56 pm

Stephan wrote:I don't take A.P.Kool ('bullshit') and his Jippes-Bashing very seriously. I think that the story that appeared in the mini-extra some days ago was really great and very well drawn.

That's a Jippes-Barks story, and A.P. Kool clearly says those "dreamteam"-stories are very good. Also the Jippes-Milton ones.
Kool's criticism is about Jippes solo stories, like Havank and the duckstory in the current weekly.
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Postby Stephan » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:08 pm

I haven't read much of Jippes' non-duck work except for two very nicely drawn pages of 'Twee voor Thee' (Two for tea). I think he's a great and versatile artist.
Indeed those double-up stories are great. Some years ago I even thought the story by Jippes-Milton in which the nephews buy cigars for Donald's birthday was made by Barks...
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Postby Robb_K » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:11 pm

I think the quality of Daan's work has gone down a bit from his '70s and '80s work-but it's still very high. Of course, he still does a great job on inking over Barks' Jr. Woodchuck scribbles. But, he admits, himself, that his solo writing is not nearly as good as he'd like it to be. When he worked with Freddy Milton, Freddy provided the storyideas and the original layouts, and Daan improved them. He still is good at staging a story that already exists. As he says himself, "Storywriting is not my strongpoint." When I approached him to team up with me to draw the final pencils and ink my version of Barks' "Queen of the Apple Festival" story, he was very glad he could get a story he liked, ready made, that he didn't have to co-write. Unfortunately, Egmont chose Geoffrey Blum's version, instead of mine.

Naturally, the youth-based enthusiastic work of Jippes/Milton, Jippes/Verhagen, Jippes/deJonge, Jippes/Milton/Verhagen, as well as the Jippes/Barks stories, will be better than his current solo work. Few artists stayed as enthusiastic about the same characters more than 20 years after they started drawing them.
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Postby Ridder ter Geit » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:26 pm

Robb_K wrote:I agree, too. What's more, Rosa's telling Scrooge's WHOLE history, with a time line, makes it difficult for other creators to continue to refer to Scrooge's past with flashbacks and recounting, to pertain to a new adventure. I personally wrote and drew a few stories I submitted to Egmont in the early '90s, that had flashbacks into Scrooge's history (based on Barks' stories references), which because they conflicted with events in Rosa's then-proposed "History of Scrooge" (or whatever it is called) -were rejected (FOREVER). I don't think it is fair, or much fun for the Uncle Scrooge fan, for Rosa's ambition to "lock down" the history of McDuck, so that he can't have an endless flow of new, interesting and magical adventure stories. There should be some "magic" asnd mystery about these fictional characters.

Hm... how is this the fault of Don Rosa? Egmont asked him to do the Life of Scrooge and Egmont would not use these stories...
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Postby Ridder ter Geit » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:28 pm

Egg wrote:That's what happens when trying to manipulate the Ducks into a nasty limited underground world, systematically trying to make us Barks-fans look stupid.

What's the difference with the specific style of the Ducks portrayed by, for instance, Mau Heymans?

Where did Don Rosa bind ANYONE to his view? If fans treat his work this way, then they are to blame. I can't see how Rosa is to blame.
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Postby Doctor Witchie Britchie » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:40 pm

Rosa doesn't HAVE to do stories about Scrooge's past; he didn't HAVE to do the Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck. He's a popular enough creator that, had he taken his stories in another direction, they still would have enjoyed success. He knows that he's hands-down the most popular modern Duck author, and that his statements WILL be taken as the Holy Truth by hundreds and thousands of readers. His editors, as a result, will not do anything to offend these Rosa followers. The man should be aware of the power he has, and of the fact that every statement he makes on the Duck world has a big influence with editors and readers. We've already seen what his statements have done for the Magic Hourglass, and I firmly believe that his continual sniping at Mickey Mouse, both in his stories and on the DCML, has done a lot to prejudice the Mouse's chances of winning any audience among Duck fans of today. American comics and Egmont comics will forever be, to a certain extent, dominated by Rosa, and that is not good.
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Postby Ridder ter Geit » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:45 pm

I'm not sure that's his fault, though. It's all due to attention others give him. You could say this gives him power and some responsibility, I can see that point...

But he WAS asked to do Life of Scrooge story's and he did question why it should be him that does so, since he did not think he is that great an artist. Maybe he is a little naive and does not see his influence?
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Postby Pedrigreehunter » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:31 pm

Doctor Witchie Britchie wrote:American comics and Egmont comics will forever be, to a certain extent, dominated by Rosa, and that is not good.

Rosa has conquered the world. Rosa shows freelancers can be commercial and have huge influence. Rosa gets more cash. Rosa goes to the top of lame Disneyworld. Ro$a is my hero.
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Postby Doctor Witchie Britchie » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:24 pm

The Ridder wrote:

he did question why it should be him that does so, since he did not think he is that great an artist.

I'm sorry, but I've gotten to the point where I don't take Rosa's poor-mouthing of himself seriously anymore. He loves to talk about how bad his art is, etc., but I've noticed during my membership on DCML (and from a perusal of the DCML archives) that whenever anyone ELSE dares to criticize his stories he'll usually respond with sarcasam or some kind of an insinuation the critic must be deranged or have some hidden agenda. It seems to me that his continual statements about what a poor artist he is are made in the spirit that I used to say "I just can't do anything right" when particularly depressed during my childhood--my parents would always rush to comfort me and tell me how clever I was, and I think Rosa expects the same reaction from his fans.
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Postby Rockerduck » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:16 am

I tend to agree with Ridder ter Geit.

For example, *I* never thought 'The magic hourglass' is a fairy-tale, *I* never thought Scrooge died in 1967 (I even send an e-mail to a Don Rosa-fansite to complain about the fact that they mentioned he was dead by 1967!) and *I* never thought Miss Penny Wise should be erased from existence, just because Don Rosa states these things. And with me, a lot of Don Rosa-fans I know. Moreover, most of Don Rosa's fans haven't even seen those remarks. I never saw them until Egg published them on the Dutch part of the MDuck-site, and I always find people who like Don Rosa to be surprised because they never heard of it before.

If there are editors who are foolish enough to turn 'The magic hourglass' into a campfire-story, it's their fault and not Don Rosa's, who never asked the publishers to do that! He never asked *anybody* to change their views on the Duck-universe, he has always said it's his own personal view. And the followers who *did* read his comments about 'The magic hourglass' and Scrooge's death and Penny Wise should also realize that. And if they don't, it's their own fault. If I'm capable of seperating Rosa's stories from Barks' stories, everybody should be!

I know now how much Rosa has put his own spin on Barks-facts, but I have accepted that it's *only* his view and therefore I can enjoy Rosa's stories ánd Barks' stories, because the mere fact that Rosa spins a Barks-fact doesn't mean Barks' stories are ruïned because of that. Also, I'd like to note that I don't believe in the whole 'Rosa is an evil genius'-theory like Egg. Sure, I see him spinning Barks facts, but I don't see that as a 'plan', I see it as a man who tries to recreate his own 'Barks-youth', for his own pleasure. And coincidentally, he makes a living out of it. I'd be jealous too if I were you. ;)
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