COA/Inducks

places related to Disney comics, etc.

Postby Rockerduck » Tue May 01, 2007 8:36 pm

Egmont is the sponsor of Inducks?? Where did you find this out?? Do you have any proof of this, some piece of evidence?

I wonder what Egmont could gain from sponsoring Inducks. What's in it for them? They could get into trouble when Disney gets to know it. At least, that's what I make of your post: "a reason was that Disney might protest about this sponsoring, as Egmont has no such publication rights for internet." But that then makes me wonder why Disney has not taken legal steps against Inducks *anyway*, regardless of who is the sponsor.

Could Inducks really get in trouble? What would happen then? Would Disney take it down? Or would Egmont simply be forced to stop the sponsoring, and Inducks will get in financial troubles, after which it ceases to exist anyway?
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Postby Robb_K » Wed May 02, 2007 1:46 am

WB wrote:Is there anything we can do about him? Report him to a moderator to get one of them to kick him off the board or something? Seriously this guy is trolling the board and disguising his trolling attempts as "helpful suggestions to everybody" in the worst possible way. Its obvious at this point that well over 2/3 of the darn board cant stand half of the posts that result from him just being here.

This has become such a huge nuisance.

WB-Daniël IS THE MODERATOR. HE is the one who is in almost complete control of the interntional forum. HE is the one who should be removing all the off-topic posts.

Daniël - You stated yourself something to the effect of having had enough of that conversation with Harry. Shouldn't you be removing all the off-topic posts here from Harry and yourself? I guarantee that NO bystanders here want to wade through any of this. I really believe that some people have already been scared away from this forum by seeing them. If it persists, I'm sure a lot of potential posters will be turned away.

I can also vouch for the fact that Rockerduck is not one of The Moderator's aliases. I can't prove it, but I'm sure I'd die of a heart attack from shock if it were proved to me that he was.
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Postby Daniel73 » Wed May 02, 2007 1:44 pm

Robb_K wrote:
WB wrote:Is there anything we can do about him? Report him to a moderator to get one of them to kick him off the board or something? Seriously this guy is trolling the board and disguising his trolling attempts as "helpful suggestions to everybody" in the worst possible way. Its obvious at this point that well over 2/3 of the darn board cant stand half of the posts that result from him just being here.

This has become such a huge nuisance.

WB-Daniël IS THE MODERATOR. HE is the one who is in almost complete control of the interntional forum. HE is the one who should be removing all the off-topic posts.

I wasn't moderator at the time WB wrote this. I'm moderator since 15 October 2006.

Robb_K wrote:Daniël - You stated yourself something to the effect of having had enough of that conversation with Harry. Shouldn't you be removing all the off-topic posts here from Harry and yourself? I guarantee that NO bystanders here want to wade through any of this. I really believe that some people have already been scared away from this forum by seeing them. If it persists, I'm sure a lot of potential posters will be turned away.

Why would I need to delete postings? What is off-topic then? Since when are Inducks and Egmont off-topic?

Robb_K wrote:I can also vouch for the fact that Rockerduck is not one of The Moderator's aliases. I can't prove it, but I'm sure I'd die of a heart attack from shock if it were proved to me that he was.

Rockerduck is "not one of The Moderator's aliases"? What is this about then? Comments about who is who using which aliasses is off-topic.
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Postby Daniel73 » Wed May 02, 2007 2:23 pm

Daniel73 wrote:I fear that if keep Inducks keeps

Should be: I fear that if Inducks keeps

Rockerduck wrote:Egmont is the sponsor of Inducks?? Where did you find this out?? Do you have any proof of this, some piece of evidence?

Yes. I have evidence. An Induckser has written me about it. For example, when I got banned from Inducks as "troll", one given reason was that there was a fear I would tell people about Egmont being the sponsor. Telling about Egmont sponsoring would harm Inducks. I have that in an e-mail.

Recently, this Induckser has apologized for calling me a "troll" last year. As it turned out, I didn't fit in the definition. As he explained, a troll tries to destroy. My postings contained suggestions for improvements.
BTW. The apology was verbal, in private. So interesting. I've had this experience more. People call me names in public, and then they apologize in private. I would say a public offense deserves a public apology. But okay.

Rockerduck wrote:I wonder what Egmont could gain from sponsoring Inducks. What's in it for them? They could get into trouble when Disney gets to know it. At least, that's what I make of your post: "a reason was that Disney might protest about this sponsoring, as Egmont has no such publication rights for internet." But that then makes me wonder why Disney has not taken legal steps against Inducks *anyway*, regardless of who is the sponsor.

Egmont benefits of the indexes, as I've understood. Thanks to these indexes they have an administration of what they can order and what they have created themselves. Inducks is handy for professional use by editors. Also in the Netherlands, people have a professional benefit. I've understood that Dutch artists sometimes found out a creation wasn't payed by the editor yet, for example.

Disney apparently doesn't take legal steps because, from the outside, Inducks looks like some sort of fansite by selfpaying volunteers. As there are many, many, many sites by just fans.
If there turns out to be a professional or financial relation with Disney, at a fansite, then it's not just a regular fansite anymore. I'm told that Disney shouldn't know about this Egmont-sponsoring, because Egmont has no rights to sponsor such internet activities related to Disney.

I've understood that Egmont has a license to produce approximately 5000 comic book pages. (The Netherlands having 1000.) Egmont has no permission to sponsor Disney-publications on internet. I've understood that this is a reason why Egmont doesn't want the sponsoring to be known in public, and that the secretivity is a condition to keep the sponsoring. And so, given such risk, I wonder if the superiors at Egmont officially know about this. Maybe it's some action like DCML having been hosted by a government university? Maybe it's possible because Egmont is "a big place", too?

I've understood that Egmont pays for the Inducks server(s) by using an in-between company.
And I've understood that the Inducks license is just a wax nose. Just try to figure out who is responsible for Inducks as a whole. The license gives no clue. The license doesn't even give rights to Inducksers themselves.

Rockerduck wrote:Could Inducks really get in trouble? What would happen then? Would Disney take it down? Or would Egmont simply be forced to stop the sponsoring, and Inducks will get in financial troubles, after which it ceases to exist anyway?

If Egmont would stop the sponsoring, there are a many other sponsors who can sponsor a huge site like Inducks. For example, sponsors who desire to be open about their sponsoring. I think that secretive sponsoring for Inducks makes Inducksers too closed. Why isn't Inducks just an open club, sponsored by an open sponsor?
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Postby Barko » Wed May 02, 2007 11:10 pm

Interesting! I wonder what Inducks would answer if they were asked who their sponsor is.
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Postby Rockerduck » Wed May 02, 2007 11:43 pm

Daniel73 wrote:Yes. I have evidence. An Induckser has written me about it. For example, when I got banned from Inducks as "troll", one given reason was that there was a fear I would tell people about Egmont being the sponsor.

That seems strange to me. I'd figure that banning someone would *increase* the risk that he/she would spoil the secret of Egmont sponsoring Inducks, be it somewhere else (like, on a forum of his/her own). Instead, I would keep someone like that on the list, giving him/her the feeling he/she is "involved" in the secret as well, making sure he/she will keep it to his/herself (because it's not fun anymore when *everybody* knows it).

Daniel73 wrote:Egmont benefits of the indexes, as I've understood. Thanks to these indexes they have an administration of what they can order and what they have created themselves.

Er... without Inducks, they don't know what they have created? That's... odd. But then who provides Inducks with story-information (like: who did the story, who did the drawings)? I always thought they got that kind of information from the editors, but you make it seem like the editors get their information from Inducks??

(If these questions seem silly, they probably are. But I really don't know much about Inducks.)

Daniel73 wrote:And so, given such risk, I wonder if the superiors at Egmont officially know about this. Maybe it's some action like DCML having been hosted by a government university? Maybe it's possible because Egmont is "a big place", too? I've understood that Egmont pays for the Inducks server(s) by using an in-between company.

Of course they know! You can't have a major publisher having ties to a large fansite, without the superiors knowing it!
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Postby Robb_K » Wed May 02, 2007 11:58 pm

The Disney Comic book producers have in-house lists of the story code number, story idea authors storywriters/scriptors, pencilers and inkers, as well as translators. But, I believe that INDUCKS helps them, as it crossreferences all their data, which the Disney comics francises' software cannot do.
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Postby Daniel73 » Sat May 05, 2007 8:58 am

Barko wrote:Interesting! I wonder what Inducks would answer if they were asked who their sponsor is.

My latest information on Egmont sponsoring Inducks comes from 4 April 2007.

McDrake International has been deleted from the list of links at COAZilla:
For general discussions about Disney comics, check out:

HQsDisney (Brazil), DDF(R) (Denmark), kvaak.fi (Finland), Picsouman (France), comicforum.de (Germany), the DCML (in English, mailing list), DCF (in English), Papersera (Italy), Andeby online (Norway), Startpagina (the Netherlands), KalleAnka.tk (Sweden).

http://coa.inducks.org/discuss.php

Rockerduck wrote:
Daniel73 wrote:Yes. I have evidence. An Induckser has written me about it. For example, when I got banned from Inducks as "troll", one given reason was that there was a fear I would tell people about Egmont being the sponsor.

That seems strange to me. I'd figure that banning someone would *increase* the risk that he/she would spoil the secret of Egmont sponsoring Inducks, be it somewhere else (like, on a forum of his/her own). Instead, I would keep someone like that on the list, giving him/her the feeling he/she is "involved" in the secret as well, making sure he/she will keep it to his/herself (because it's not fun anymore when *everybody* knows it).

Yes, it also seems strange to me. However, I don't want to be in a situation where I would get rewarded for being secretive.

Inducks has been offline for about two weeks. It is said to have been a hardware problem, at 'Roddelflop'.
http://roddelflop.wordpress.com/
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Postby Daniel73 » Sun May 06, 2007 12:52 pm

About Inducks/Outducks/DCF/etc. being offline:
2007-05-01 21:22, cacou wrote:Sorry for the long delay, we faced many troubles these days.

2007-05-04 19:48, cacou wrote:The reason was a wrong cooling system and broken fan. The main problem is that not even our Internet provider can easily access the machine (it is located in a building at a different place than their office). So we didn't know what was the problem, and had to ask the internet provider to check the server several times until he finally could replace the broken fan.

http://dcf.outducks.org/viewtopic.php?id=43

Mysterious. Has COA/Inducks/Outducks been offline for about two weeks because of just a wrong cooling system and a broken fan? And didn't they know what was the problem, and had to ask the internet provider to check the server several times until "he" finally could replace the broken fan?

Who is their internet provider then? Name?
Why can't their internet provider easily access the machine?
Why is that machine "in a building at a different place than their office"?
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Postby Daniel73 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:10 pm

DCF keeps on deleting messsages without giving any explanation. It seems that Mr. François Willot has complete freedom in discriminating people he dislikes. But don't get critical, because François Willot is the boss.

On 2 September 2007, I got the following answer when I complained about a removed message:
I removed your message and maybe it was a mistake. I'll look again to it
when I have more time.

But please, don't send messages to all the people in the CC, who are really
not in charge of the forum. I don't want to bother them with my mistakes!

Up until now I haven't had any reply. But nonetheless François Willot still keeps on deleting messages. Even days after they have been posted. Without any explanation or notification. François Willot gets free hand in doing whatever he wishes to at cost of Inducks. No one there wants to protest against his actions.

How childish can a club of Disney comic book fans be? Just look at the photo's they make of each other. Such people play for judge on internet, protecting themselves by deleting and banning someone else.
Some Inducks people should be very ashamed of themselves. And maybe they are ashamed, concerning their secretivity and their attempts to intimidate critical members.
They call you a "friend", but when you get critical, you get to see how they define "friends".

Apparently, they think this situation is so funny, that they can make jokes about it on internet:
Image
"...and we don't want any trouble with you, pal! Do I make myself clear!?"

How funny, if that intimidating is exactly what's happening at Inducks.

Here the message that I, today, discovered being deleted from DCF.
DCF, 2007-09-08 16:39, Daniel73 wrote:
Lars Jensen wrote:
Morequack wrote:Rosa as usual is simply being accurate.

How can an emotionally-based opinion about a subjective matter be "accurate"?

Also Don Rosa himself ignores his own timeline and his own Life of $crooge. As can be seen when comparing B-chapter 'A Letter From Home' with 'King of the Klondike' (Lo$ 8) and 'The Billionaire of Dismal Downs' (Lo$9). I'm amazed that no timeline scholar seems to be bothered with that.
I've read some workarounds by scholars which just don't match. I've yet to see the first convincing workaround that would combine all three stories into one single "timeframe".

Creator Rosa breaks his own rules whenever he himself feels the need. As many creators do, no matter what they promise.
On DCML, Rosa has explained, for example, that whenever he himself finds something funny enough to include, he'll make an exception to include it anyway.

Saying that Rosa as usual is "simply being accurate" is a statement that I would like to see proven. I miss proofs. People would have to ignore a lot of Rosa to make his work consistent with either Barks or even Rosa himself.

Morequack wrote:And any Barks "follower," or "follower" of anyone or anything, who does not recognize and or downplays the talents of Don Rosa, both as artist and storyteller, is deluding oneself for whatever reason.

Anyone who does not recognize or downplays reality is deluding oneself, I think.
But then, what is reality?

My opinion is that Don Rosa has a lot of undeveloped talent. My theory is that editors like Gladstone, Egmont and Gemstone are over-using Rosa as a surrogate-Barks to refresh interest in the real one, at cost of Rosa's own creativity. I'm wondering how much Rosa is trying to please only himself and how much he's trying to please his "friends".

Lars Jensen wrote:
Morequack wrote:Pardon me, but to accuse Rosa of merely "writing to show off his knowledge of arcane bits of history, or to fill in bits of Scrooge's 'history' that don't need to be filled...," whose stories "are boring and lack substance" is not only mere opinion but shows a transparent and uncalled-for disdain (and possibly envy) for arguably the best Duck-artist since Barks.

Guys, this is supposed to be a discussion on time frames in Disney comics. I agree with Don on some matters and disagree with him on others. And I'm sure that goes for almost every other person out there. Why do you feel a need to state that people critical of Don's stories are deluding themselves, are disdainful and are possibly envious? Why so hostile?

Morequack didn't write what you summarize here. I think you are misinterpreting some of his words.
Also, at least two people here in this discussion are Disney creators themselves. So I guess it's very honest to suggest that there could be envy involved. Rosa gets more money. Rosa gets more freedom. How can a colleague not be envious on that?

Lars Jensen wrote:This is exactly the kind of BS I hoped we could avoid at DCF.

What is BS?

Lars Jensen wrote:If you have some good arguments, let's hear them.

I'm very curious what arguments people will give about obvious contradictions in Rosa's work.
It's difficult to argue any longer if there are simply proofs that Rosa uses alternative universes and alternative timelines, even within his own work.

Removed from: DCF - The Timeframe in Don Rosa's Stories
http://dcf.outducks.org/viewtopic.php?id=113

Interestingly, Disney creator and DCF "Moderator" Lars Jensen seems to have complete liberty in demonizing a Disney comics reader (Morequack). But when I ask Lars Jensen what he means, my message gets deleted.

Lars Jensen raises up talk about "personal attacks" and "hostile" behaviour. As if he himself isn't getting personal and hostile with that. Talking down to an individual reader is something I find very tasteless for a Disney creator who's even playing for "Moderator".

How amazing that Inducks told me that Egmont Publishing pays the bill. Disney creator Lars Jensen seems to be working overtime at home, teaching his readers how to behave when he's in the spot.
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Postby Daniel73 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:21 pm

The edited photograph was submitted to DCML on 10 September 2007:
[...] the actual happening went like this:

http://raptus.dk/tmp/meeting.png ;-)))
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Postby Daniel73 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:36 pm

And, again, I have been banned from DCF. Again without any explanation.

You are banned from this forum.

Please direct any inquiries to the forum administrator at
fwi@inducks.org.

That will learn me for being so critical to particularly Francois Willot.
As long as people like him can be the boss at Inducks, there literally is no place for me there.

2006-08-08 13:12:53, Harry wrote:What do other people think? Should I keep a troll like Daniël on the Inducks list, or unsubscribe him and let him continue his rants here on mcduck?

In a meeting earlier this year Inducks-spokesman Harry has apologized for misplacing me as a "troll". Harry agreed that this was a wrong description as I've tried to help Inducks being a good, constructive place.

However, I think that this public incident of name-calling between Harry and me has opened the door for not-so-mutual "friend" Francois who now kicks me out of Inducks's DCF whenever he wishes.

I've never wanted to resubscribe to Inducks's "private" mailing list. Even though I could have, especially after the apology.
I have tried to contribute to DCF. After my experiences there with the deleting and banning, it is slowly dawning on me that I've wasted a lot of time on some secretive all-too-human club where indexing is more an excuse than a purpose.

It's not just contributing to DCF alone. An attempt to index Barks's non-Disney stories at Inducks and COA, a contribution by Harry and me, has been succesfully protested away afterwards by some other Inducksers. Without giving me (as contributor) any report on this. The data was connected with a site by me, and then one day I just coincidentally find out that a lot of Inducks-links are suddenly dead and that the information is unreachable for me and my site-visitors. :| And then I have to spend time to delete all those links I faithfully added to my site, notably in communication with Inducks and its software/data. It's just suddenly gone.

Whatever you submit to Inducks can be destroyed at any time. And don't dare to complain. :(
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Postby Jan Erik » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:25 pm

This is ridiculous - I cannot tell you why this happens.

Nepotism, I guess...

If I get banned now, I'll let you know!

:)
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