Wanneer komt er weer eens iets nieuws van Don Rosa?

[Rockerduck]

Tja, wat die Eisner Award betreft... Het is tegenwoordig niet moeilijk meer om ergens een prijs voor te krijgen. Voor elke tak van kunst en cultuur bestaan wel honderden awards. Mis je de één, dan ga je gewoon voor de ander. Ga maar na hoeveel filmprijzen er alleen al zijn. Maar in 'Stripschrift' beklaagde columnist Ben Bits zich een jaar geleden nog over het absurd aantal prijzen op de Stripdagen, dat ieder jaar groter wordt.

En wat is zo'n prijs waard? Ach, voor de Nobelprijs voor de Vrede kun je ook iedere halve zool voordragen, als je maar een bepaald minimum aantal steunbetuigingen hebt behaald. Zo zijn George Bush en Adolf Hitler genomineerd geweest voor die Vredes-prijs. En terrorist Yasser Arafat heeft 'm ooit nog gewonnen ook. Tja, wat zegt zo'n prijs dan nog?...

[Stuck on Duck]

Even terug naar het èchte onderwerp van tip topic.
Wanneer komt er nou eindelijk een nieuw verhaal van Rosa in Nederland uit? (..ja, er zijn nog Rosa fans)
DDE 7½?
Wat mij trouwens ook opvalt, is dat er nooit een Dagobert album uitkomt.....

[coolojw]

ik denk wel dat the prisoner in dde 7 1/2 komt

[Paulus Pietersma]

Dat belooft een hete zomer.

[Ridder ter Geit]

Hoe vertalen ze zoiets smakeloos voor de kindertjes? Ze proberen vast iedere suggestie die Rosa wilde leggen eruit te halen door in de vertaling een hele andere afleidings-suggestie te maken.

[anoniem]

Hoe vertalen ze zoiets smakeloos voor de kindertjes? Ze proberen vast iedere suggestie die Rosa wilde leggen eruit te halen door in de vertaling een hele andere afleidings-suggestie te maken.

Iets met peren?

[Rockerduck]

Maarre... als Dagobert en Goldie met beschaamde gezichten het hutje uit komen; hoe gaan ze dat dan verbergen?

[Caspar]

Nadorp zou wat plaatjes kunnen overtekenen, met een paar kleine aanpassingen

[Ridder ter Geit]

Die zijn gewoon beschaamd omdat ze gevochten hebben ofzo.

[Ei]

Ze zijn beschaamd omdat ze zich weer hebben laten inhuren voor een Rosa-verhaal.

[Stuck on Duck]

Het barst hier van de Rosa fans zeg....:rolleyes:

[Ei]

Het barst hier van de Rosa fans zeg....:rolleyes:

De Rosa-manie lijkt voorbij te zijn. Waar is de tijd gebleven dat er iets nieuws van Rosa kwam? De laatste jaren is het Rosa kalender, Rosa Hall of Fame en nominatie en bla bla, maar waar zijn de verhalen? De recenste Rosa-verhalen zijn voor Rosa's eigen doen aan de matige kant.

[Ei]

Ja hoor, op DCML is er weer eens gedonder over Rosa. Als je op zoek bent naar een plaats waar het barst van de Rosa-fans, moet je bij DCML zijn.

Wat is er nu ditmaal gebeurd? Ene Michiel heeft het lef gehad om binnen DCML (de heilige Rosa-tempel) te wagen de nominatie van Rosa's 'The Black Knight Glorps Again' aan de kaak te stellen. Daarbij is gebruik gemaakt van de uitdrukking "sheer nonsense" ("volslagen nonsens"). :O

Oei oei oei. Alsof er andere woorden te vinden zijn voor de volgende opmerking: "If you're a fan of this stuff, I'd think you'd prefer the Eisner went to Rosa and/or Gemstone than having it go to someone else, under any circumstance!"

Hoezo moet Rosa in elk geval winnen? Moet de Eisner Award persé naar Rosa en/of Gemstone? Koste wat het kost? Is het niet meer "moge de beste winnen"?

En dan te bedenken dat die Rosa-fan vervolgens anderen wil gaan leren wat goed fatsoen is. De Rosa-fan zal de criticus leren hoe een goed argument te voeren, met voorbeelden en zo. Terwijl de Rosa-fan zelf bereid is om waarden en normen overboord te zetten, als de heilige Rosa en/of Gemstone maar wint. Hoe slecht ze ook kunnen zijn in hun werk.

Dit zou volgens Ei een interessant discussie kunnen worden op McDrake International. Op DCML word je snel gecensureerd. Rosa-fans maken zich snel druk en creëren daarmee zelf een sfeer van ruzie ("name calling and denigration"), die in de schoenen van de criticus geschoven wordt. Op DCML zijn de moderators daar gevoelig voor, zo'n "flame war". Op McDrake kun je dit soort discussies wel voeren, zonder vrees voor blokkades van bovenaf. Misschien dat er op McDrake daarom weinig Rosa-fans zijn?


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Don Rosa Eisner nomination
M.J. Prior
Wed May 2 17:58:45 CEST 2007

I wrote in an earlier post:

> ... "A Matter of Some Gravity" and the Lo$-series, which
> were actual Eisner Award winners.

Oops! "A Matter ..." only got an Eisner nomination!

Joe Torcivia:

> And, if Don Rosa wins an Eisner for "The Black Knight
> Glorps Again", I will be happy for him

Sure, if Don Rosa wins the Eisner I'd be happy for him as
well, but ...

> If you're a fan of this stuff, I'd think you'd prefer
> the Eisner went to Rosa and/or Gemstone than having it go
> to someone else, under any circumstance!

This is sheer nonsense. It's not like these Awards are
some kind of baseball competition, where you're rooting
for either one team or the other. I must admit that I
haven't read any of the other nominated stories, but given
the fact that they ARE nominated for Best Short Story,
there's a chance that I might like some, if not all, of
the other stories as well. Thus I might be equally happy
for one of the other guys, should they win the Award.

Greetings,

Michiel Prior.


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Awards Debate
JTorci3511
Thu May 3 14:02:00 CEST 2007


To my comment below:

> If you're a fan of this stuff, I'd think you'd prefer
> the Eisner went to Rosa and/or Gemstone than having it go
> to someone else, under any circumstance!

Michiel Prior responds with the following:

>>This is sheer nonsense. It's not like these Awards are
some kind of baseball competition, where you're rooting
for either one team or the other. I must admit that I
haven't read any of the other nominated stories, but given
the fact that they ARE nominated for Best Short Story,
there's a chance that I might like some, if not all, of
the other stories as well. Thus I might be equally happy
for one of the other guys, should they win the Award.>>

First: Can't ANYONE disagree with someone's posting on the Internet without
that disagreement being branded as "sheer nonsense"?! I disagreed with
Michiel, and stated the reasons for that disagreement -- even offering a parallel
to the Oscars and animation, without denigrating his opinion. Even if I
were to privately consider his assuming the role of arbiter over the Eisner
committees and judges to be "nonsensical" -- particularly when the committee has
read all the different nominated works and he has not, it would not be my
place to state that in a public forum.

Second: As long as he brings it up, the Eisner's ARE INDEED in many ways
similar to a "baseball competition". I've attended a few, and can say that
there have been partisan groups that cheer and whoop it up for their particular
favorites as much as one might do so for Derek Jeter or David Ortiz. One
year, there was such a group "making noise" for the creator of an indie comic
called "The Three Geeks" to such an extent, that I left the awards determined
to try the book. BTW, I DID, and I liked it.

Third: Using the "Three Geeks" example. If such attention can move someone
like myself -- who is admittedly not an indie supporter -- to buy and enjoy
such a title, why wouldn't the Eisner "buzz" and notoriety have the same
effect for UNCLE SCROOGE? Thus, my statement: "If you're a fan of this stuff,
I'd think you'd prefer the Eisner went to Rosa and/or Gemstone than having it
go to someone else, under any circumstance!" Right now, Gemstone needs any
help it can get! And (again) IF YOU ARE A FAN OF THIS STUFF, you WANT to see
Rosa and Gemstone win the award over someone else -- just as I (as a Yankees
fan) would want to see Derek Jeter win the MVP over David Ortiz. If you are
NOT A FAN OF THIS STUFF, then please be as "fair and balanced" or neutral in
your opinions as you wish. That's what MAKES competition in the first place.

Fourth and Final: Michiel, if you are so adamant that Don Rosa should not
win an Eisner for this particular story -- and would rather be "fair and
balanced" as opposed to being "a fan of this stuff" (as I openly profess to be),
why don't you do everyone on this list a service and seek out and read the
stories that are competing with Don Rosa. No sarcasm is meant here -- but you
can serve as "our eyes" on the overall picture and accurately report to the
List on whether Don's entry is -- or is not -- worthy of the top prize in the
field that exists THIS year. Finally, if you respond to these comments, do
take the high road and make your point with examples (...particularly if you DO
read the competing entries) and civility. We can continue to disagree
without name calling and denigration.

Indeed, I WOULD be interested in hearing how you would stack ALL this year's
nominees for "Best Short Story", and (I'll assume) so would many members of
this list.

Joe Torcivia.


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[Stuck on Duck]

Het barst hier van de Rosa fans zeg....:rolleyes:

De Rosa-manie lijkt voorbij te zijn. Waar is de tijd gebleven dat er iets nieuws van Rosa kwam? De laatste jaren is het Rosa kalender, Rosa Hall of Fame en nominatie en bla bla, maar waar zijn de verhalen? De recenste Rosa-verhalen zijn voor Rosa's eigen doen aan de matige kant.

Er zijn nog genoeg verhalen van Rosa die in albumvorm nog niet gepubliceert zijn maar niet te veel hierover er zijn génoeg topics waar dit te lezen is...
Ik hoop trouwens voor onze hoofdredacteur dat hij The Prisoner Of White Agony Creek in DDE 7½ plaatst.
En dan nog even over Rosa; Zoals jullie misschien wel hebt kunnen opmaken uit mijn eerdere posts, ik ben een Rosa fan ja(........)Maar voor de duidelijkheid; ik ben fan van zijn verhalen niét van Rosa als persoon. Laat hij stoppen met het tekenen van posters over Dagobert, met urenlang voor de spiegel staan en vlijen hoe goet hij wel niet is, met het oppoetsen van zijn 'grote' prijzen en ze mooi neer zetten in een IKEA kast, VERHALEN SCHRIJVEN dat doet een striptekenaar meestal toch?

[Ei]

Rosa is nog steeds druk met awards. Hieronder meer van de discussie op DCML, waaronder een reactie van Don Rosa zelf.
Dus toch nog iets "nieuws" van Rosa.


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Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 00:42:49 +0200
From: "M.J. Prior"
Subject: Awards debate
To: dcml

Joe Torcivia wrote:

> If you're a fan of this stuff, I'd think you'd prefer
> the Eisner went to Rosa and/or Gemstone than having it go
> to someone else, under any circumstance!

To which I responded with the following:

>> This is sheer nonsense.

I guess I could have done with "I strongly disagree",
which gives an equally adequate, but probably less
offensive, expression of my feelings towards your
statement.

I *do* consider myself a fan of Rosa's 'stuff' and yet I
don't feel so strongly that he *should* win this Eisner
Award, no matter what, and certainly not up to the point
where I would begrudge an other artist the Eisner, which
your "under any circumstance!" seems to imply. Maybe I
would have had a stronger feeling if the nominated story
was a real dilly, like "A Matter of Some Gravity", but as
it is I don't see why Don Rosa should have the Award at
all costs.

Your Bugs Bunny example doesn't hold here, because Don
Rosa has already *had* his Awards, for the Lo$-series in
1995 and for Best Artist/Writer: Humor in 1997, although I
admit it was an adequate reaction to that part of my mail
that you quoted above it, just like I disregarded the rest
of your mail and focused on this one sentence.

> If such attention can move someone [...] to buy and enjoy
> such a title, why wouldn't the Eisner "buzz" and
> notoriety have the same effect for UNCLE SCROOGE?

That's a good point, but it's a new point which was absent
in your previous post. I can agree with you on this one.

> If you are NOT A FAN OF THIS STUFF, then please be
> as "fair and balanced" or neutral in your opinions as
> you wish.

Which I assume means that as a fan, you don't need to be
critical?

> why don't you do everyone on this list a service and seek
> out and read the stories that are competing with Don Rosa.

I think you are more in a position to do so than I am,
since apparently you live in the States, whereas I live in
the Netherlands and would have to go to greater lengths to
lay my hands on copies on all of the nominated stories. In
fact, Rosa's story is by far the most easily available
story in the batch, because it has seen print in so many
different countries.

Greetings, Michiel Prior.


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Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 08:32:16 EDT
From: JTorci3511
Subject: Re: Awards Debate
To: dcml

Michiel Prior wrote:

"I guess I could have done with "I strongly disagree" [ instead of 'This is
sheer nonsense'],
which gives an equally adequate, but probably less offensive, expression of
my feelings towards your statement."

Thank you for that, Michiel. With that said, everything else becomes little
more than a civil difference of opinion.

Whether or not we agree on matters ranging from Bugs Bunny's Oscar (...not
Bugs' or Friz Freleng's best work), to if Don Rosa's story in question is one
of his best (...for the record, I do not regard it as one of his best -- but
only because it lies in the company of such other stellar works) becomes
fodder for other List members to consider and add to the discussion.

My opinions -- love 'em or hate 'em -- come from being a biased "fan of this
stuff". The only sin in that would be to act as such, but fail to openly
characterize yourself as such. Beyond that, it's all opinion -- and "fannish
bias" -- or lack thereof -- is key to forming opinion. This is no more than a
debate between a biased "fan of this stuff" and someone who might choose to
be a bit more "open minded" -- and more power to both of us!

Where I'll take just one more disagreement with Michiel is the following:

"I think you are more in a position to do so than I am,
since apparently you live in the States, whereas I live in
the Netherlands and would have to go to greater lengths to
lay my hands on copies on all of the nominated stories. In
fact, Rosa's story is by far the most easily available
story in the batch, because it has seen print in so many
different countries."

Logistically, perhaps. In the "Reality of Life Sense", not so much! Given
both the blessings and curses of middle-class American life, my time and
funds to devote to comics are at all time lows. I keep up with (barely) that
which I enjoy -- mostly from Gemstone and DC. I once had a greater inclination
toward experimentation -- but no more.

Besides, as a biased "fan of this stuff" I'd have no interest in seeking out
anything else -- unless it someone showed me that it was simply too good to
pass up! On the other hand, the very instruments of technology that allow
Michiel and I to have this debate are open to him -- and to all members of this
List -- and would enable any and all to seek out and obtain these other
works.

If not Michiel, perhaps someone on the List could make this a project. It
would be interesting to see the results -- and our collective horizons
(...even mine) might be broadened by the experience!

Joe Torcivia.


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Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 10:27:27 -0400
From: "Don Rosa"
Subject: RE: DCML Digest, Vol 51, Issue 6
To: dcml

>>>>> 1. Awards debate (M.J. Prior)

Obviously I should put in my 2 cents about this....
I do not wish to win this award. One wants to win awards, sure, but for work
that one knows is truly outstanding. One doesn't wanna win awards based on
some fluke of timing or how submissions were nominated or not nominated. I
was hoping to get nominated for "The Dream of a Lifetime" or "Prisoner of
White Agony Creek", both of which I was *very* proud of. But I guess
"Prisoner" was not printed in a comic booklet here (it was in a "trade
paperback", therefore ineligible for a "comic book" award), and I'm told
that the Gemstone editor did not understand the proper nominating procedure
until after "Dream"'s year -- he would nominate multiple titles, stories,
writers and artists in each award category, rather than just ONE nomination
per category, which apparently resulted in voiding his nomination ballots
during those years (this is what I was told).
So... if there is even a chance I would win for a run-of-the-mill story like
"GLORPS Again!", I would be hard-pressed not to stand up there and ask some
questions... like "Thanks, but... what about my *good* stories?" or "If I
wrote and drew the best comic story of the year in ANY category, how could I
then NOT also be at least nominated for BEST WRITER/ARTIST OF THE YEAR even
just in the humor category?" (*note below) or "How can a 26 page story be
nominated for BEST *SHORT* STORY when the super-hero comics that are
nominated as BEST SINGLE ISSUE (Best full-length story) are only 22 pages
long?" (**note below). And then somebody would shout up from the audience
"Y'know, and *I've* been wondering how you win American Eisners when your
work is all done for and reprinted from Europe, making you only eligible for
the single BEST FOREIGN MATERIAL award?", a question I cannot answer, so
then they might demand all my past Eisners be returned and a fistfight would
break out and tables knocked over and that would simply not do. (***note
below)
So, for fear of the unlikely chance that I *could* win, and the even more
unlikely chance that one single vote could make a difference, I won't cast
my vote for myself in that category.
And as corny and phony as it always sounds, the truth really is that "it's
enough just to be nominated", at least *this* time with that particular
story, anyway. I do not want this undeserved award -- but I'm very glad to
see the nomination as that does not simply put "UNCLE $CROOGE" and
"Gemstone" in the public eye in this Disney-comics-hating nation, but (in
case you didn't notice), this is not only the FIRST category on the ballot,
but mine is the FIRST alphabetically listed nomination simply because "Black
Knight" starts with 'B'... and I assume (can't recall) that that will carry
through in the actual awards ceremony, win or lose. So THAT is the good
thing about this nomination of a story that deserves no special recognition.
UNCLE $CROOGE and Gemstone Comics will still be the FIRST nomination of the
entire night read aloud, while everyone is still paying full attention. The
Gemstone/Barks/Disney comics are what deserve and need recognition here, and
my nomination has already achieved that in the best way possible.

* Yes, The director of the BEST MOVIE OF THE YEAR seldom wins BEST DIRECTOR
OF THE YEAR in the AA Oscars... but that's vastly different -- there are
literally thousands of people who contribute to the success of a movie, and
often the script or the music or the editing or the acting were why a movie
was deemed BEST. When it comes to a comic written and drawn by one guy,
that's rather a different thing.
** The answer to this is that the 22-page super-hero stories appear in 32
page magazines *packed* with ads so there's room for only the one story. My
26 page story appeared in a 64 page magazine with only a coupla house-ads.
That is a definitely flawed situation in those awards. Seems like those
categories should be combined. Oh, well... since all other American comics
are 32 pages, I guess they're satisfied with the way they have it set up.
*** Then my final question, before or after the fistfight, would be "How in
the name o' god did you people not even nominate, much less make a winner
out of, Gemstone's magnificent (and so inexpensive!) job of reprinting the
LIFE AND TIMES OF $CROOGE McDUCK or LaTo$McD COMPANION as BEST GRAPHIC NOVEL
OF THE YEAR - REPRINT CATEGORY. It was Bud Plant's *best-selling* comic
book item of *any sort* of the year, and fans have raved about it around the
world. Gemstone did a spectacular job! And not even a nomination for either
book?! For shame!"
Then they'd take away my plastic wine cup and ask me to leave...


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