Duckfan van Down Under schreef:[pakhuis naar de bodem van de oceaan] Ik ben een spoiler-hunter. Wat voor fanfictie heeft hij nog meer bedacht? Kun je er een paar vertellen?
Nee, ik weet niets meer. Behalve dat er een verband zou liggen tussen Xanadu en Rosa's ouders voor de neefjes, als ik me niet vergis.
Via de quotes van het Italiaanse forum heeft Rosa zelf de grafsteen van Dagobert verklaard:
Don Rosa, Il forum del Papersera, 31.07.09 alle 22:24:29
First of all, please stop apologizing for "bad English". Obviously I don't know ANY Italian, so I'm the dunce here. (I obtained *very* poor translations of some of the messages on this thread by using Babel Fish, which supplies me with English texts that make practically no sense whatsoever!) And those of you who have written in English are writing better English than can most Americans under the age of about 30 or 40.
>>>>>You're right, we talked a lot about the famous illustration of the tombstone; several forum members have always asserted that it has been realized for a specific competition, but even so, every time a new member discover it, we go back to the beginning, explaining of the competition and so on...
Ah, very good! But I'll make sure it's perfectly clear with my own explanation. This won't take long because I hear from people so often about that illustration that I have a text saved to use when needed. Here it is:
[The unauthorized use of that cartoon is a real problem. You saw that picture on a website that never requested permission to reproduce or use that image! I originally drew it for my contribution to a German fanzine feature which invited many cartoonists to offer their idea to illustrate the line "Hey, Daisy! Whatever happened to $crooge?". It was a joke feature -- it was meant to be funny to see all the different odd ideas that various cartoonists would offer to illustrate the quote. Some of the ideas were funny, some were rather vulgar... but as for my contribution, since I have such a serious view of these characters, I offered a scene of what might be said in the far future over $crooge's grave. As many readers know, in order that my stories agree completely with the stories written and drawn by Carl Barks that I grew up with, I set my stories in the 1950's -- after all, there's no way that $crooge could do everything that Barks' stories said he did in the years Barks said he did them and still be alive today. He'd be close to 150 years old!
Anyway, what happened next was that some people took my contribution to that humorous fanzine feature and started reprinting it *without permission* and *out of context*. They never explain to their viewers about the fanzine feature for which my illustration was done, so it makes it look like I was taking it completely upon myself to show a depressing scene and morbid information for no reason! I don't disagree with the image I showed, but it's unfair to me to not be able to explain the cartoon's original purpose and context to all the people who see the image on those unauthorized websites.]
>>>>>Referring to the non-utilization of Duckburg characters that were not created by Carl Barks... I don't remember any great discussion about that, honestly; if you would like to explain more on this (or even different ones) topic, feel free to do it
According to the translation gibberish from Babel Fish, that seemed to be the topic of some messages I found this morning that were from a month or two ago. I could easily (!) be wrong.
But rather than go into that, let me stop here for now. I mean, how will the above English message be shown to the forum members who don't speak English? I know using Babel Fish is hopeless! And I know that it's quite a chore to translate a text from one language to another -- much more difficult than "simply" reading or speaking another language. Translating is work. So I don't know why anyone would want to do that for me here.
So... I'll see what happens, and next time I'll address that business about what characters I am *allowed* to use.
Ciao! (That's Italian!)
P.S.: Um... I'm wondering... how do you know I'm really Don Rosa?
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http://www.papersera.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1069256543/1337#1337Bijzonder grappig vind ik de parodie op Rosa's tekening, door LPSO, 31.07.09 22:30:54:
Vertaling:
Scrooge: "Hi, what is lost to me?"
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http://www.papersera.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1069256543/1338#1338Rosa's gezwatel over een Dagobert van bijna 150 jaar bewijst hoezeer Rosa de plank misslaat bij Barks. Dat zijn verhalen "agree completely" met Barks, wordt door zijn tekst zelf tegengesproken.
Rosa's klacht over "unauthorized use" van de grafsteentekening is bespottelijk. Moet Rosa om toestemming gevraagd worden als het gaat om Disney-personages? Of is de juridische grap dat dit geen Disney-personages zijn, gezien het gewijzigde uiterlijk van de eenden?
Rosa heeft op internet veel geprofiteerd van "unauthorized use" van zijn tekeningen. Veel Rosa fansites bevatten vroeger bakken met fan-tekenwerk van Rosa. Hij strooide ermee. Maar die grafsteentekening is een probleem?
Don Rosa schreef:Anyway, what happened next was that some people took my contribution to that humorous fanzine feature and started reprinting it *without permission* and *out of context*. They never explain to their viewers about the fanzine feature for which my illustration was done, so it makes it look like I was taking it completely upon myself to show a depressing scene and morbid information for no reason! I don't disagree with the image I showed, but it's unfair to me to not be able to explain the cartoon's original purpose and context to all the people who see the image on those unauthorized websites.
Wat een trap richting de Don Rosa fansites. Hoe ongenadig ondankbaar. Maar hij kan zich gelukkig prijzen, een paar grote Rosa fansites zijn van internet verdwenen.
Rosa schrijft, over het ongeautoriseerde gebruik: "it makes it look like I was taking it completely upon myself to show a depressing scene and morbid information for no reason". Dan was de depressieve, morbide sfeer in 'Life of $crooge' en 'A Letter From Home' zeker ook in opdracht?
Don Rosa, Il forum del Papersera, 05.08.09 alle 17:21:42:
Well... I never dreamed my posting a message here would lead to such a reaction. I guess I'm flattered... but why is it so unusual for a cartoonist to contribute to a comics forum? We have computers, too.
Okay... I guess I need to sit down and do some writing here. The matters that people seem to want me to reply to are getting extensive. I never contribute to forums like this now... in the 90's I would sometimes answer direct questions put to me on forums, but I would never enter into a discussion of my work, pro or con. I am naturally delighted when people like my stories, but when they don't like my stuff that's fine with me... I dislike most of it myself. What I do like to remedy is when someone might dislike what I do due to some misunderstanding or misrepresentation by someone else. I naturally want to correct that misunderstanding -- then if they *still* dislike my work, that's fine. Dislike it, but dislike it for what it is, not for how it's been misrepresented or misunderstood.
Okay, first off, the irritation I thought Babel Fish was showing me in someone's messages about how I do not use other authors' Duckburg characters, particularly the Italian authors:
As you should know, I am an American, and I grew up in the 1950's. And the Duck comics with which I grew up were my older sister's, so they ranged from the late 40's to just about 1960. Now, these were stories by Carl Barks and some other writers & artists (whom you comic scholars know well) who used Barks' characters and the entire Duckburg "world" that Barks created. Eventually Barks and Western Publishing (for whom he worked) quit the comics business, but Barks' Ducks were still quite popular (!!!) elsewhere in the world. So new stories of the Barks Duck Universe started to be created by Europe-based Egmont and the Dutch publisher, these stories still based solidly on and only on that old Barks Duckburg. No characters have been added to that Universe since Barks retired.
As to the Italian Duckburg Universe, which I know is much vaster and complex than what Barks used... these stories were never seen in America. Certainly not when I was young, and not even when I was first doing Duck comics for Gladstone and Egmont in 1987-2005. Gemstone used the Italian stories in a Donald digest for a year or two, but I never received any of those.
So, fact #1: I'm sorry to admit it, but I don't know ANYTHING about the wonderful Italian Duckburg world. How could I? It was never seen here or anywhere in English. Egmont publishes many Italian stories in Europe in their many digest-size comics, but I can't read any of those even if I had any. Of those I've seen during my trips, I admire the art (though it's VERY different in style from any Duckburg art ever seen in America), and I see that there are characters being used whom I don't know. But I don't know a blessed thing about any of them, so I can't very well use them in stories. But even if I learned who they were and *wanted* to put these great Italian characters into stories, I would be prevented by...
Fact #2: I am not allowed to use any characters except those from the Barks universe which is the "universe" that is used in the Duck comic magazines published by my employer Egmont. Outside of Italy, there are TWO types of Duck comics -- the larger magazine style (the classic American-style "comic book") and the small digest-size booklets. The magazines use the Barksian stories, the digests use the Italian stories. There is NO crossing or mixing of these two universes, probably because of the striking difference in the Italian art style. And I am employed exclusively by the magazine division. So I am limited to using the American/Barks universe.
But... if you know me, you know that the only reason I got into this line of work is due to my lifelong love of *only* the Barks Duck comics. So this limitation isn't a problem for me. Perhaps if the Italian stories had ever been published in America, I'd love those characters also -- it's impossible to know.
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http://www.papersera.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1069256543/1388#1388Don Rosa schreef:Well... I never dreamed my posting a message here would lead to such a reaction. I guess I'm flattered... but why is it so unusual for a cartoonist to contribute to a comics forum? We have computers, too.
Waar. True. Hier heeft Rosa een punt.
Don Rosa schreef:So new stories of the Barks Duck Universe started to be created by Europe-based Egmont and the Dutch publisher, these stories still based solidly on and only on that old Barks Duckburg. No characters have been added to that Universe since Barks retired.
Wrong. Fout. Egmont heeft inmiddels Diederik Duck, Otto van Drakenstein en Bella Duck gebruikt.
Don Rosa schreef:Gemstone used the Italian stories in a Donald digest for a year or two, but I never received any of those.
Waarom koopt hij ze dan niet, verzamelaar die hij is?
Don Rosa schreef:I am not allowed to use any characters except those from the Barks universe which is the "universe" that is used in the Duck comic magazines published by my employer Egmont. Outside of Italy, there are TWO types of Duck comics -- the larger magazine style (the classic American-style "comic book") and the small digest-size booklets. The magazines use the Barksian stories, the digests use the Italian stories. There is NO crossing or mixing of these two universes, probably because of the striking difference in the Italian art style.
Wrong. Outdated information. Verouderde informatie. Vreemd dat Rosa niet lijkt te weten dat Otto van Drakenstein door Egmont weer tot leven is gewekt.
Dakrasinder schreef:[ouders Kwik, Kwek en Kwak] Maar er is nog een vijfde mogelijkheid (een variant op 4): nadat ze eindelijk gevonden zijn, besluiten Della en haar man om:
1. tijdelijk in te trekken bij Donald totdat ze een eigen woonruimte hebben
2. zich definitief te vestigen ergens in Duckstad (kan volgen na 1), zodat ze altijd in de buurt zijn wanneer nodig maar niet continue in beeld
Er zijn vast zat mogelijkheden met zo'n samengesteld huishouden. En daarnaast hebben de ouders interactie met andere Duckstad-bewoners (kan niet wachten).
Vergeet je niet dat het gaat om een Disney-strip?
De enige echte reden waarom de ouders van de neefjes niet verschijnen, is dat de neef-oom relaties bewust zo bedacht zijn. Neven en ooms kunnen vrijer met elkaar omgaan dan kinderen en ouders. Stel dat Oom Donald was bedacht als Vader Donald, in de jaren '30. Dan had het klachten geregend: wat zijn Kwik, Kwek en Kwak brutaal tegen hun vader, en wat gaat de vader slecht met zijn kinderen om.
Een opmerkelijke uitzondering is de relatie van de Grote Boze Wolf (Midas) met Wolfje. Hoe hebben deze twee personages het strenge stripklimaat van de jaren '50 overleefd? In hun verhalen wordt een slechte vader uitgebeeld. Er was in de jaren '50 of '60 een bekend Nederlands liedje, dat ongeveer als volgt ging: "Af en toe gaan pa en moe, samen naar de speeltuin toe". De tekst vermeldt dat vader op zo'n dag eens geen "boze bui" heeft. Over dat lied waren klachten. Zo praat je toch niet over een vader?
Michiel P schreef:Ferdi F schreef:Godzijdank dat Rosa Hortensia niet mocht gebruiken. Donald die als volwassene zijn moeder ontmoet, vind ik toch een beetje raar.
Waarom vind je dat raar? Volgens de Nederlandse traditie is Oma Duck de moeder van Donald. Met haar gaat Donald toch ook gewoon om? Wat is er dan ineens anders? Waarom kan Donald niet zijn moeder ontmoeten?
Een ontmoeting tussen Donald en zijn moeder roept vragen op. Waar is die moeder al die tijd geweest? Met de Rosa-benadering resulteren zulke vragen doorgaans in sombere verhalen over een gebroken familie.
En stel je voor dat Donald in ALFH niet van Doortje maar van zijn eigen moeder een pak slaag met een borstel had gekregen. Dat soort ouder-kind relaties worden bij Disney vermeden. Donald zou anders een door ouders mishandeld kind zijn.
Michiel P schreef:Appie Aap schreef:Op het Italiaanse Il Forum del Papersera vertelt Don Rosa het volgende:
Appie, je opent daar een goudmijntje aan verse Rosa-quotes. Ik doe straks even een info-dump in het
Verzameltopic over de stamboom.
Zo'n info-dump en zo'n verzameltopic kun je veel beter verwerken in de
McDrake Wiki. Heb je meteen een edit-functie tot je beschikking!
Michiel P schreef:Rosa's volledige oeuvre kan onder fanfictie geschaard worden. Met name het Levensverhaal heeft typische fanfictie-kenmerken, maar eigenlijk geldt het voor al zijn verhalen met Barksverwijzingen.
100% mee eens.
DD schreef:[Zou het de echte DR zijn?] Dan zou hij net zo goed ook hier lid kunnen worden. De meesten spreken hier tenminste Engels. Ik zal eens kijken of ik hem kan binnenhalen.
Badeend schreef:Alsjeblieft niet, de man zou onmiddellijk weer depressief worden als ie leest wat hier geschreven wordt. En zo te zien heeft hij z'n handen al vol aan dat Italiaanse forum.
Waarom meteen zo'n medelijden met Rosa?